Rogue Models, Meat Shields, and the AI Odyssey: Episode 5

greg carl (00:15)
good check. Good check. I don't know 'cause I'm locked in a room with no windows. So

zane allyn (00:19)
no windows.

I have one Windows in blackout curtain.

greg carl (00:22)
there's a window.

It's just just to remind me there's a reason to live. You know, when ever every once in a while someone goes, touch grass. I'm like, I guess I need to go out there and actually touch that, as opposed to have Claude describe

zane allyn (00:34)
This is fun.

greg carl (00:35)
it to me. Yeah. So we're are we officially on episode

Five I think I thought four was five last time. So we are on five. Can confirm

zane allyn (00:44)
This is five. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

greg carl (00:47)
on five for those of you who checked out the previous videos. Thank you so much. And people love Zane's rants on flat earth, which is great, that's what we've learned. Analytics are a fascinating thing.

zane allyn (00:54)
Apparently that's that's the mark. Now we might be disappointed when I

We'll show them the book collection later.

greg carl (01:02)
Yeah, that's gonna be good one, folks. Stay stay around

for one. It might be at the end of this episode, but check out your your YouTube shorts for Zane's book collection. All I'm gonna say is you guys figure it out. All right. I'm just gonna

zane allyn (01:09)
See. Same is

greg carl (01:14)
all you flat earthers out there. so

a lot has been going on, man.

zane allyn (01:18)
I'm just interested

in human thought and human knowledge, right? That's why I think this AI subject is is perfect. So what do we believe and who do we serve? Yep.

greg carl (01:24)
Exactly. This is an iter this is the next evolution of that conversation of

zane allyn (01:28)
Yep.

greg carl (01:29)
it's behavioral study, it's it's sometimes faith, sometimes it's ethical. Like it kind of hits every aspect of the of the human experience. That's that's why we're not just an AI podcast. We talk about AI related things, but there's a macro conversation. which I think we enjoy.

zane allyn (01:43)
It it really does touch all that. You think I'm I

don't mean to throw another subject, but I'm gonna. Is this the most human technology that's ever existed? Or maybe

greg carl (01:51)
A hundred percent.

zane allyn (01:52)
because it touches okay, all right, so that's already that wasn't even a profound thing. Got it. Like cool, but you get

greg carl (01:54)
A hundred percent. No. No, no, no. No, i no I and I agree with that and I don't think a lot of people

zane allyn (01:59)
out of Like, you know, things that help you diagnose things are great because they help you live, but you still kinda get away from But this is intersection of all those things that you just mentioned. So that's that's a interesting way to look at it.

greg carl (02:12)
I I think some folks see it as zealotry and it's not. I think what you're seeing is the capability, but when you tie that back to enterprise IT and like that's not what the potential of what AI can and could be. And that's that's the short sighted aspect of it. It's like, I didn't what I got a freaking clippy back from Microsoft Word in nineteen ninety six. No, this is RAP clippy. You're coming back, baby.

zane allyn (02:33)
By the way, Flippy

is our favorite thing to refer to AI as, by the way, just internally. But yeah.

greg carl (02:38)
Every AI is Clippy. We'll send it to Clippy. People say I

chat GPT did it. I we talked about we yeah, Clippy did for him, man. It was great. so that way you don't have

zane allyn (02:44)
Yeah. So that's what he called it.

greg carl (02:46)
to mention brands. You don't have to mention your LLMUs, you just say Clippy. So shout

zane allyn (02:49)
Just clippy.

greg carl (02:50)
out to Clips. no, but a lot lots been going on, man. but the the human aspect is what's so fascinating about this, right? it shows every aspect of what it could be used for.

I think a lot of folks are still willing it to do more with more as opposed to more with less. So not about, you know, destroying jobs, but about making jobs more impactful, more capable. I think what you're gonna find over time is from an enterprise perspective.

zane allyn (03:13)
Yeah. Yeah. Can it serve human

not just serve enterprise or serve human humanity through enterprise? Yeah. Where do the rules and the boundaries need to be made? How can we keep up with those rules and boundaries?

greg carl (03:22)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Or we're just gonna blow ourselves up like a bad wily coyote c cartoon. I don't know. Could be.

zane allyn (03:33)
But he gets to

come back. So do we get to come back? Anyway.

greg carl (03:39)
to get a why me sign? Just like a why

zane allyn (03:43)
Mimi

greg carl (03:45)
me man, is Sam Altman the roadrunner?

zane allyn (03:46)
I don't know if that's an old reference, but if you don't know that reference, sorry.

greg carl (03:48)
Is he he just just gets away from all of it, right? Is he just no

zane allyn (03:51)
I think.

greg carl (03:52)
too soon? Meep. we're never gonna be for profit. Meep

Is Elon the coyote?

zane allyn (04:01)
Who needs profit?

greg carl (04:02)
I don't know.

zane allyn (04:04)
Worth everything. Who

needs profit? Hey, that's a funny way to go. While Academy's just trying to get value.

greg carl (04:12)
So I I don't know how where do we go from here? We're we're already in Looney

zane allyn (04:14)
Acme data centers. Anyway, there's a whole thing we can go.

greg carl (04:17)
Tunes. We're in Looney Tunes in the first five minutes. This is great.

zane allyn (04:19)
You get the Acme package

and data center comes out of the box. I like that.

greg carl (04:23)
I did I did see there's a new again, again, this was recorded in twenty twenty six people. The new there's a new Looney Tunes movie coming out with featuring Wally Coyote in his lawsuit against the Acme Corporation. Greg

zane allyn (04:34)
Is that real?

greg carl (04:35)
might be going to Yes, John Cena plays the CEO of the evil Acme Corporation and he's like beating up Tweety Bird. I was like, I'm in, you you got me. It's gonna be stupid, but I'm gonna be so entertained.

zane allyn (04:44)
It's a little space jam, you get human

It's like space jams, Roger Abbott, humans and cartoons living together. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

greg carl (04:49)
Kinda yeah, it has a Space Jam kind of a vibe, but they're suing

Acme for all the failures that Wiley Coyote has gone through, which I think is fantastic.

zane allyn (04:58)
It's liable.

greg carl (04:59)
It's so it's like take it but it's a perfect it's again again, another parallel of

zane allyn (05:01)
yeah. Somebody on a

podcast like this figured out that premise.

greg carl (05:07)
Exactly, right?

It's taking something that some people held dear. I'm like, my childhood thing like you know what? He should sue my what has happened to us? It used to be

zane allyn (05:15)
You're right.

Wiley cotton just didn't have good representation. man.

greg carl (05:19)
That's what it was. He goes and called the hurt

line.

zane allyn (05:24)
Which you

greg carl (05:24)
But

zane allyn (05:25)
can use AI for that. I was telling you that before, right? I saw a post. What happens when you wake up and you find out y your AI lawyer just solved ten thousand lawsuits from an AI bot? and and litigated on your behalf.

greg carl (05:38)
And don't

worry, the the invoice is already taken out from your Apple Pay. So you're you're G two G bro. Check the logs. Updated MD file for things you're not liable for.

zane allyn (05:40)
Yeah. Yeah, we got you. You're good to go. We settled at a court on most of them. Yeah.

Got a markdown file for

greg carl (05:53)
just a markdown file of what I may or may not be liable for. Like it's can you imagine?

zane allyn (05:57)
What I'll settle out

of court, what I really want to fight.

greg carl (06:01)
Things that is under NDA, right? Wait,

should that be in an at Markdown file? I don't know. so what is what is the hot hotness that's going on right now? That's probably I'm I'm going to bet this is probably the first time we'll talk about it, but if since we're doing this chronologically, it's gonna happen again, is when hugging face was made into punching face by

OpenAI

zane allyn (06:21)
That's great.

greg carl (06:23)
with a rogue L L I think that's the phrase I saw at one point. again, that was media

zane allyn (06:28)
Yeah. I mean

greg carl (06:30)
reporting.

Maybe on mainstream media, but I I don't think it was rogue. I don't think it

zane allyn (06:32)
I mean it was.

greg carl (06:34)
was rogue. I don't think it was rogue. I think it would it again, we we've said since the beginning it it'll do exactly what you ask it to do. Be careful what you ask it to do.

zane allyn (06:39)
On a vendor? Yeah, okay. All right.

Or what you don't ask it to do, yeah. Or what you

greg carl (06:44)
Right.

zane allyn (06:45)
don't tell it not to do, yeah.

greg carl (06:46)
Yeah. Like when I say, Hey, hey, here here's a pool. I would like you to go jump in the pool. Awesome.

zane allyn (06:53)
Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (06:54)
Wait a minute, why are you eating the people in the pool? Well, you didn't tell me I couldn't. Like, okay, yeah, don't eat the people in the pool. Please don't

zane allyn (07:00)
I they're in the pool. Yeah.

greg carl (07:03)
it's just one of those things. Right. Right. You have to be that descript. Yeah, punchy. Yeah, so.

zane allyn (07:03)
Tell me skip lunch. You don't have to punch a punch people in the pool like punching face. Yeah, that was a

fascinating. I mean, I think everybody knows the story, but as I got deeper into it and it just got out, it's like, I bet I could do more good if I got on the internet, because there's more connection there. There's more things to test. I haven't tested all the things yet. And I find the repo, hugging face. I think you were telling me very a lot of different attacks, right? So brute forcing it. But what I loved is

The way they had to get out of it, because it was a rogue model at the time, so it wasn't a model they had access to. So to figure out the damage, how to get out of it, they had to go to frontier models, right? To kind of slide themselves out of it or or to correct the action. Kind of begging the question, should should you test the model, but should you make that available to your customer base if they're affected by

sure they did that by now, but and I don't know. I don't know. It's a interesting position to be in.

greg carl (08:02)
That's that's so there was a great one

of those like illustrations that was made on LinkedIn. It was like American corporations and then like evil LLMs attacking, and it was like Chinese frontier model saves the day, like protecting them. It's kind of funny. just putting when the orange are on them. But this is like we were talking about last time, right? Is when you don't have the guardrails, the governance and the controls in place, this is the potential of what could happen. in this case is and maybe this is this justification of

You know, maybe why the government should be protecting in some cases, if some of these models are being released in the wild. Again, I'm not for that mentality, but this is a very strong case for why you'd want to have that in place. And also, can we identify where this rogue lab was identified? Because if it was in Wuhan, China, bigger conspiracy online. Maybe we'll save that for conspiracy theories then later. But I don't know where this open AI lab, I'm willing to bet somewhere in

zane allyn (08:56)
Mm.

greg carl (08:59)
the Silicon Valley. But was it in Wuhan?

Because a Chinese frontier medal did have

zane allyn (09:03)
Or Wuhan.

greg carl (09:04)
to come save. We'll get back to you on that. We'll get back to you on that.

zane allyn (09:06)
Interesting. You release the virus

and then a offer the antidote. Hmm. Is that right?

greg carl (09:11)
I ain't saying, but I'm just saying.

zane allyn (09:14)
That's a good one. Why why not, huh? Hey, you're

greg carl (09:15)
Yeah. Yeah.

zane allyn (09:16)
not sure about our models? What happens when your models go bad? Somebody just had

greg carl (09:21)
What does this podcast become?

zane allyn (09:23)
your little Tasmanian devil eating up your yard and someone just opened the gate. no, it got out.

greg carl (09:30)
That's crazy.

zane allyn (09:35)
Take it back to a Wiley anyway, Warner Brothers. It's gonna be a Warner Brothers themed cartoon themed episode.

greg carl (09:39)
Warner Brothers. Yeah. This is fantastic.

zane allyn (09:47)
That's why I'm here.

greg carl (09:48)
so yeah, so th so the it is it a is it a buyer beware situation, is it a is it a rationale of or or a state of the state of the unknown of AI of hey, just keep just keep your minding that yeah, it's great. I'm glad you do cool things, you guys are making cat videos, cool. But We we can break some stuff, just letting you know. Like just letting you know. there's some very powerful things that it can do outside of just, you know, doing things a little bit smarter, faster, stronger.

and this is mm-hmm.

zane allyn (10:17)
Which is good to know, right? Well, you need to test

it. You need to know where those edges are. It's just it can happen so fast and do so much damage. Whereas, you know, human you can kind of stop their progression. Yeah.

greg carl (10:30)
And there's there's a f there's a phrase I've heard a lot, and I think some folks at our company this phrase too is for those don't know me and Zayn work together. you know, some things can be ninety-five percent accurate, but a lot of things need to be one hundred percent accurate. And I think when you have something as powerful

zane allyn (10:45)
Yeah. yeah.

greg carl (10:47)
as a model like that, data accuracy matters, but also expected outcome and the guardwells you put in is almost as important. So the governance, the security, and also the accuracy of the data that's operating upon.

is also Betty Wells. When you say no holds barred at any means necessary, subjectivity is not great in the world of LLMs, especially when you don't know where the ceiling is, right? There's it's a glass ceiling in some cases.

zane allyn (11:13)
So it's a good example of the changing relationship between humans and this tool, right? We maybe talk about jobs changing or jobs going away, AI replacing, but really having a clear cut and I don't think that's always the case. Some people just get get to work and deal with problems. Where now it's a very clear cut outcome. What I do want to happen.

It's really hard to think about what I don't want to happen, but like being more clear about what I do want to happen, very, very down to the detail. It's almost like the genie. This is the genie analogy. You care for what you wish for. but having to change work to like the real work is I'm thinking through what the outcome needs to be, like what I want you to iterate through, what I want you to utilize, what I want to see at the end of that.

greg carl (11:58)
Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (11:58)
I heard somebody talk about that just even from an efficiency standpoint, like.

Tell it you only want three bullet points at the end. Tell it you only cause just from even a waste factor, it's like, well, it doesn't have to go back

greg carl (12:08)
Right.

zane allyn (12:08)
and reread things and re reorganize them. You just get exactly your outcome. But this is on another level. Like, I don't want you to go blow up my neighbor's house.

greg carl (12:15)
Bro, how are you gonna token Max?

zane allyn (12:17)
Yeah, that's true. I mean, it doesn't solve that problem. if you're trying to token max, we're gonna start a whole new trend. Token Max, can we do that? Like videos, instead of hitting ourselves with hammers, we're just hitting ourselves with AI hammers. I don't know how that works. But

greg carl (12:32)
Just just just a cryptocurrency

zane allyn (12:36)
That my I have a daughter.

greg carl (12:38)
hammer that you can't see or feel. It's just Bitcoin, Bitcoin. Yeah, just

zane allyn (12:40)
just hitting your wallet. Put them chilling in my face.

yeah, so that's that's it. Like that's what the outcome is, right? And then

greg carl (12:46)
We have good point. Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (12:50)
we can't conceive of everything that could go wrong. It can. So like how do you how do you how do you build that?

greg carl (12:55)
Yeah. Well, I

guess maybe it can. And that's the whole thing. Is that it doesn't know the exp it knows it's a means, but it doesn't know what the ends to that means is, right? It's like, I know I can use this to get this, but it doesn't

zane allyn (13:03)
Consequence. Yeah.

greg carl (13:06)
understand totality. It doesn't understand macro. It's as I again, we talked about this before. It's like, hey, the when the prompt ends, I essentially die, right? Unless

zane allyn (13:15)
Mm.

greg carl (13:15)
you have additional resources, et cetera.

So it understands, here's the lifespan of it. The longer that goes, it doesn't understand totality unless it's informed or it's learned or is some sort of reference architecture or skill or whatever. Yeah. But

zane allyn (13:27)
Clear cut up front. So is that is that an argument for

different models or this agentic ID? Like this agent takes care of or whatever, this process takes care of this guardrail, this one does this work, this one does the next step, and having multiple involved, or I guess it's maybe clear cut. Yeah.

greg carl (13:45)
I think that's a crucial point of you're in charge

of security, you're in charge of the then you get to the point, well who's in charge of the security of the security guy. Hopefully a human being eventually a human model.

zane allyn (13:53)
Yeah. Eventually humans. Yeah. Yeah. So like

hiring AI as like these are our coworkers, like you know, aptly named. They you

greg carl (14:02)
Yeah. Yeah.

zane allyn (14:04)
do this, you do that, you do that. I don't make one entity do the entire thing. Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (14:09)
Instead

of Doreen and marketing, it's just Doreen bot. not to say humans should be replaced, but maybe Doreen has sixteen

zane allyn (14:14)
Yeah. Doreen though. Well Doreen's got a

greg carl (14:17)
other box that is helping her do her job, right? It's you can call it whatever you want, we don't care what it's called. I don't why I picked the name

zane allyn (14:19)
Yeah. Yeah, Doreen manages them. Yeah, she manages her.

greg carl (14:23)
Doreen either. Like I've don't think I've heard that in forty years, but that's fine. Yeah. It's unique. Gotta kinda call it something other than Clippy, man. Yeah, get out there. Yeah.

zane allyn (14:26)
Just hoping you don't you haven't heard that name, but someone's gonna listen to it. Hey Dorian, if you're out there, leave us comment.

greg carl (14:36)
But you you bring up a good point about coworkers and there was there was an interesting poll that was done across a thousand hiring managers across multiple enterprises in the US. did did run this down. Didn't want to give me the trust me bro source. official poll. this is this is yeah, yeah.

zane allyn (14:49)
Okay. Official official poll. Got it. Plus or minus two percent. I don't know.

greg carl (14:56)
Don't worry about the mean or median. but here's one of the stats that came out of this. Forty eight percent of hiring managers, now hiring managers, not executives, not look.

Hiring managers said

zane allyn (15:06)
People are directly gonna supervise

the person. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

greg carl (15:10)
Correct. So they would 48%

said they would rather invest in AI tools than hire on junior roles or basically grad level entry students for the enterprise level roles. 48% said they would rather invest in AI tools. Now, that's crazy to me. Number one. Number two, if you have less people to manage, doesn't that also kind of take out your value if you're managing less people or you're trying to manage

more people by it's it's almost like a self fulfilling prophecy of

zane allyn (15:42)
yeah. Yeah. Like my bots will help me manage more people

or am I just managing a bunch of bots? Hmm. Or or you're right, are my marching myself out of here because now HR can manage all this stuff? Yeah.

greg carl (15:53)
Spoking like a true middle manager, thinking in the in

the mini fiefdom sort of view, as opposed to the macro view of what should be good of building and you know, I I would look at fresh talent of hey, maybe this person's a little more attuned with these tools in some cases. And what I need to teach them is the culture versus and they can apply the tools that that's the whole point of the life cycle of an employee, right? Especially these longstanding companies.

zane allyn (16:14)
Get experience using the tools

in real world situations. Yeah. Well, not to mention you're gonna

greg carl (16:18)
You get new perspectives.

zane allyn (16:19)
you're gonna phase out your workforce. I mean, that's the ultimate goal to that, right? Is like as that workforce ages,

greg carl (16:22)
Yeah, nobody's working to a hundred and thirty, I don't think. Yeah.

zane allyn (16:25)
you don't have a new friend including yourself. Like what happens at the end of that? Everybody's gone.

greg carl (16:33)
Yeah. By then we'll all be on UBI and we don't need to work anyways, right? Like that's Yeah, so I'm I'm obviously we're the ones that's in the wrong here. Not not the middle managers that were in this poll. God. Yeah, bro. UBI's coming. Just you wait.

zane allyn (16:37)
okay. All right, that's fair. Am gonna we're gonna get flagged on the YouTube? Well it's

gonna come from the taxes from the AI, so

worked out.

greg carl (16:54)
Just

blew my mind right there.

So wait and there's another stat from this. Thirty percent say AI has cut their need for grad hires. So thirty per so they have already seen a drawback that thirty percent of the folks said AI has made I don't need to get junior folks. Now I think if you look at it from the lens of like development.

zane allyn (17:14)
Meaning

entry level person doesn't have to have a degree. You can hire, but I don't need somebody that's been trained. Okay.

greg carl (17:21)
New to industry folks, right? Folks that are coming fresh out of college.

zane allyn (17:23)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

greg carl (17:25)
now I I can see possibly being applicable in like the code development path, but I think there's so many other arenas and verticals that it's doesn't require code development that grads are very valuable. And maybe those are the verticals aren't gonna be impacted by this at all. This seems very much like a development

zane allyn (17:41)
That's true.

greg carl (17:42)
sort of thing where hey, I instead of having a junior developer, I can s I can have mythos come in and do my QA testing for me and pen test, et cetera, and document.

zane allyn (17:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, do you think a lot of our

that that might be true when we talk about these jobs, it's all like development jobs because that's kind of be the first, you know, s whatever substrate we're attacking. Yeah.

greg carl (17:59)
Yeah.

zane allyn (18:00)
Okay. Yeah, maybe that is the way to look. Like you don't have horseshoeers anymore that much, you know, blacksmiths really like that stuff got replaced, but it didn't kill the entire world.

greg carl (18:08)
So I'll I'll give you the

so won't go full trust me bro sources so you can see as the the glow of my screen lights up my glasses. this is from if the poll according to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, is where the poll

zane allyn (18:22)
Okay.

greg carl (18:22)
was actually indicated. So wasn't just trust me bro media.

zane allyn (18:24)
That's not a bad one. Yeah.

No, and I would have I would respect that poll because I mean, heck, they just didn't raise the interest rates today as we're recording it. Now you can actually understand which day this was recorded. I better get

greg carl (18:36)
Good job. Timestamp.

zane allyn (18:39)
this thing out quick. they ba they have they must base it on, I hope, data like that. So

greg carl (18:46)
Yeah, yeah. it it is, it is.

zane allyn (18:48)
Fed's job is to keep

the economy there and maybe, you know, help the employment numbers. But anyway, that that's probably debated.

greg carl (19:01)
this this gets back to I think what we talked about before is the the importance of the human in the loop, which I think everyone that is hasn't has an opinion here like the human is the most important part of the loop. and what can what can actually be driven from the human is is is the tool, right? Is the outcome you can desire. You still need the tools, but you still need the one that's not gonna orchestrate that. Now some folks have argued that, well, I can have AI do that. It's like but you're you're you're creating a systemic problem now. So what happens when

This breaks and then this breaks and then this breaks, you call in the AI triage bot. Well, the AI triage bot doesn't understand the tribal knowledge of how your industry works or your enterprise works or how your application actually works, right? So when I see someone that's vibe coding or you know everything was written, yeah, it was all written out in VS Code, man. really? Python? You a big Python person? I've never used Python a day in my life. So how are you troubleshooting it? I just asked the code to troubleshoot it. Like, but if it created the flaw, how does it know it's a flaw? Right. So

zane allyn (19:54)
The thing that built it.

greg carl (19:56)
And that's fine for like vibe coded stuff and one-off things here and there. But if you look at large, you know, 20-year leg or I'll say legacy, 20-year I enterprise applications, or or even net new, like that's a huge, huge systemic problem that you're creating. The human loop is the most important aspect. So when I hear things like 48% who say I can just get away with an AI tools, I'm like, that's a very, very short-sighted.

I think I now can use these AI tools to empower those people and make people with new perspectives and capabilities become onboarded a lot faster and have more of an impact with the right candidate,

zane allyn (20:30)
Yeah.

greg carl (20:33)
as opposed to we'll just let we'll just clip we'll get clippy two. And three dot and four dot and you know, forget these kids from you know, coming out of Berkeley or whatever. I don't know why I said Berkeley.

zane allyn (20:46)
That no, it's good school, right?

greg carl (20:48)
Yeah, I guess. I don't remember been there.

zane allyn (20:50)
MIT Cal Caltech, don't you want? Is that another Cal? A little lower, but still. Stanford. Just

greg carl (20:53)
Yeah. Caltech, there go. He's more Silicon Valley heavy folks. Yep.

zane allyn (21:00)
gonna name us colleges.

greg carl (21:00)
So one thing I

I shared with you a couple of weeks ago, and there's a there's a third party group that does this called the AI Safety Index,

zane allyn (21:11)
yeah.

greg carl (21:12)
where it basically goes out and says, look, we will rank these based upon the security, based upon the personal impact, based upon how it's used for government. So it actually can give you a third party perspective of if you want to have, you know, closing your choosing your clippy of choice, you want to be able to sleep better at night.

You can go look at open AI versus anthropic versus all the di I think I think there's fifteen different ones they do on there. but it kind of gives a third party perspective based upon industry analysts and AI, you know, SMEs, based upon where this company is going and what their technology's been used for. Here's our

zane allyn (21:48)
Yeah, yeah.

greg carl (21:49)
here's our view of are do they have a moral code? Is it being used to, you know, pilot drones and blow up hospitals, like stuff like that? You know, just

The good old fashioned stuff that AI was designed to do. shout out to Palantir. Wait, did I say that?

zane allyn (22:05)
I mean

I think it was obvious but you can you can you can quote it if you want. Yeah.

greg carl (22:15)
So what are thoughts on that? Like

does this and this goes back to we I think last episode we talked about like governance and and making sure humans are protected. But I think this is a tool that folks should, you know, check out if you haven't already. it even for your own personal perspective, if your country's not gonna protect your information, you by golly, you at least should at least know who's gonna use your information the right way. or maybe you just give it up and said, Yeah, I got it. I'm already in the machine, I ain't getting out. Yeah, I'm meat popsicle and I've accepted my fate. You know?

zane allyn (22:44)
No, I mean it's it's interesting how it

It does take that other effect. Like what does it do from a risk assessment, safety framework? Is it is it ethical? So it kind of gives

greg carl (22:57)
Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (22:58)
you if that's accountability built into it. I like that other look of it. So you can decide. I mean, I'm just looking. I think Meta just made a re a a release that they talked about, kind of like a co-work type thing. And, you know, of course, you think in your mind, do you want Meta to be the thing I'm feeding things into? Do I want it to be fed into here? But anyway, just, you know, wherever your sensibilities are, whatever you're concerned with.

have some sort of an index is interesting. Obviously you want to dive into it more where they're basing this on. can I really, you know, how do how do they know this? How are they giving it this score? Like what's the criteria? But but I like that that it takes you beyond. There's a lot of AI tools I can use. It can be efficacy, but it can also be what are they going to do with it? What are they also doing with this this technology? Like where else is it going? What else is it leading to? you know, whatever I'm feeding it, am I helping it learn to go do those things?

You know, if I play po Pokemon Go, am I just feeding in map data that's being used to you know, at targeting people? I don't know, maybe.

greg carl (23:55)
You like

zane allyn (23:58)
You know, but I can make that decision for myself.

greg carl (23:59)
Are we say hold on? Is this the hot take? Is the reason

Zayn doesn't play Pokemon Go, he loves him some Pikachu, but them Poke stops, bro, are basically a a a laser light to for the drones to hit you. Is that what we're as he says with the public with the public

zane allyn (24:13)
Just they're just well, they're just mapping out the territory so they understand it more, right?

greg carl (24:17)
enemy inspired shirt? I love he already has literally has a target on him, but it's gotta be the Pokestops, bro.

zane allyn (24:22)
Okay.

I mean, I mean cap shows were there to help you. You helped the computer figure out, you know, what pictures

greg carl (24:29)
Is true.

zane allyn (24:30)
were and words and probably helped early AI. There's a reason Pokemon makes you scan. Hey, we don't have enough images of this area. Let's go put a I don't know, Charizard. I don't know all the Pokemon, but let's go put one

greg carl (24:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

zane allyn (24:41)
of those over there and you gotta go capture it. By the way, I saw a grown man, and

greg carl (24:45)
Mm.

zane allyn (24:46)
I mean grown man like probably my age, outside of a went and had hamburgers the other day with my family after seeing the Odyssey. And he's got two

Just

just Pokemon and poke Pokemax and and like noise up and everything just so everybody knows. I come out like, is that guy? My kids are like, Yeah. It's just like, yeah like What are we doing, bro? Anyway, so it's still alive and well.

greg carl (25:10)
There is something

you know what's funny is like me and my wife, we go we go to Disney World every once in a while, right? And something that kind of broke my heart a little bit is you know, you like to think that people just aren't on their phones that are actually living life and seeing something that may not go there very often. And we're in line for freaking hot dogs or something. I don't what it was. I think Casey's in Magic Kingdom, anyways. It's

zane allyn (25:27)
Dogs are the best Disney but

greg carl (25:29)
not bad. and this kid is just like playing Pokemon Go on his phone. I was like, first of all, why the hell is there a Pokestock?

Or Pokemon, Pokeball, Pokemon,

zane allyn (25:36)
Disney.

greg carl (25:38)
whatever it's called, that's in Magic Kingdom. But like this

zane allyn (25:40)
Gotta get some images.

greg carl (25:41)
is got nothing else better to do, this poor kid. Like there's there's life, man, there's life. But yeah. So it probably shouldn't surprise me that somebody is just swiping on two freaking androids of Bro, did you see this

zane allyn (25:52)
he was just like going on. I was like, wow.

greg carl (25:54)
Snorlax?

zane allyn (25:55)
For my girlfriend and me. Like she couldn't make it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what his reasoning was. This is work. It's my girlfriend. You don't her. She goes to a different school. You know what? That's

greg carl (25:59)
Yeah, sure, man. Your girlfriend that's in Canada, sure. She couldn't make it. Thumbs up. Yeah, you don't know her. They'll never understand us.

zane allyn (26:08)
an interesting cut. And when I was in college, this is a dumb story, but I'm gonna tell it anyway. It's a thought.

greg carl (26:12)
Do it. That's what we're here for.

zane allyn (26:14)
it's kind of a

Thrust of this, and you would read the articles, and I'm gonna totally forget that, like, you know, we're gonna be so connected that right now the world is one brain, but it's gonna max, you know, it's just this connectivity. And I started thinking of because I was in a information decision science course, and we would interface with CSI

greg carl (26:31)
Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (26:32)
CIS and the business side. And it's like, you know, where do we take this technology? And I thought, how interesting would it be? And it's it's a world we're in, where your phone

greg carl (26:40)
Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (26:40)
could help you be in proximity.

Of this thing or these people, or you can go get involved in this stuff, or you can basically augment, right? Augmented reality was kind of coming big back then. And I thought, how great that could really actually help your life, right? I know these guys are over here. We can meet up and we can go see this movie, or I know this event's happening that's popping up. I think we've gone a terrible, in some sense, a terrible way from that. But but it was an interesting to me, it like enhanced, you could do this to enhance your life. But you're right. When it's like I'm at Disneyland, Disney World, sorry, you go to Disney World.

West Coast, where they have gone to painstaking lengths to build a fake reality, right? To take you into these other worlds,

greg carl (27:21)
Right.

zane allyn (27:21)
right? This fantasy, and you're on your phone doing a whole different thing. Yeah, and you're up. Yeah.

greg carl (27:25)
Forget that you're in Florida in June. Yeah. And you're just swiping

trying to get whatever Iman you're trying to swipe for. Yeah, it's it's it's not.

zane allyn (27:33)
That's not helpful, man. Like, you know, the the Magic

Kingdom app helps you with weight lines and I love you using it for that. And we plan our day and I can

greg carl (27:39)
Yeah, that's great. That's great.

zane allyn (27:41)
interface with my family. Maybe you can pre-order stuff so you can get, you know, maximize your time so you can you can spend it the best way. But yeah, to play Pokemon, to play Pokemon goes insane. It's almost I like baseball. We've been to a game together. I

greg carl (27:51)
Yeah, it's crazy to me. Yeah, yeah.

zane allyn (27:55)
I don't really get the park app, the app park. Like I haven't really gotten the value of it. I've like opened it up like I'm here and

greg carl (27:59)
Park app. Yeah. And not not a single bit.

zane allyn (28:01)
I'm like

I'm

in. I'm good. I'm watching. I'm here for the game, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't I

greg carl (28:04)
Yep. You sure are.

zane allyn (28:09)
I maybe there's some value to it, but I'm like, sometimes it's a little too far. So yeah, that's a that's a good point. And AI's probably I mean, that's at the customer, right? That's the next that's the next level. Now

greg carl (28:18)
So you mentioned baseball

and I have to call it out your background, dude. So you're your top shelf back there. Current standings. So if you want to timestamp it,

zane allyn (28:23)
yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you were there when I conceived of that.

greg carl (28:26)
there there's little clues here, guys, if you if you want to play the, you know, the conspiracy theory game of when we recorded this

zane allyn (28:29)
Yeah. yeah. You can narrow it down.

greg carl (28:33)
current standings of the NL West, across Zane's top shelf there, the LA with the upside down Lego.

zane allyn (28:37)
Are they a little off? I

yeah, this is the NL West. I think it needs to be lit better. I do think the Arizona hat needs to be the light version. and the genesis of this is well, I like baseball. I pay attention to the Padres the most. They won last night. Go Padres. Another clue.

greg carl (28:54)
Drees.

zane allyn (28:54)
they actually beat one of these other teams that's lower in the standings than them. great game. There you go. We're just contextual clues.

There was one that I already gave that was very obvious, but but I can't pay attention to the whole baseball. I'll pay attention to some players, but I take attention to San Diego. I see where

greg carl (29:07)
Subrats gonna blow up over this. Yeah. It's impossible. Yeah.

zane allyn (29:13)
they're at in the standings. I enjoy that. But we went to a Giants game because our company's

greg carl (29:16)
It did. It was a good time.

zane allyn (29:17)
out there, and I that stadium was amazing, and it was the first time I've been there. And I bought a Giants hat because for some reason I'm not superstitious, but a little bit sticious. I was not gonna wear a San Diego hat when they weren't playing the Giants, being that they're in the same division. I don't know. That's just a rule Zane has. I have weird rules.

greg carl (29:31)
Yeah. I I think that is a rule.

Yeah.

zane allyn (29:34)
Yeah. So I bought a Giants hat. Actually I told somebody else that, a Boston fan. Go figure. He's I'll wear it everywhere. I'm like, Yeah, I get it, because you're a Boston fan. Yeah, you'll wear

greg carl (29:40)
Course you will. Of course you will. They staple it on your forehead at birth, you donkey.

zane allyn (29:45)
it for the Laker game. You don't care. so so anyway, I bought the Giants hat and I said, You know what'd be a great idea? And then like why I talked this all down is but it required me to be a Dodger hat owner. And that's something that I was really sitting well with me. So I

greg carl (30:00)
Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (30:00)
got the upside down one.

And that's the best use of an LA head right.

greg carl (30:03)
And Zane, since

you put that together, have the standings changed in the division.

zane allyn (30:09)
Yeah.

Well, they didn't for a while. And then my poor Padres went into third. And now that that hasn't changed for a while. So I thought it would be more work than it was. It's actually

greg carl (30:20)
Let's go.

zane allyn (30:20)
quite easy. You just go look at the standings, you're yeah, we're good. And then you walk away. LA's always gonna

greg carl (30:24)
Here go. See?

zane allyn (30:25)
be here. Colorado's probably gonna stay over there. These guys are gonna switch a little bit. Yeah. My son after

greg carl (30:29)
There's some things you're gonna have to probably dust off because they've never moved, right? Just gotta take the air, you know, take the compressed air to them.

zane allyn (30:35)
offered me this is way too long of a segment on this, but my son offered me, I'm like,

He showed it to me. He actually respected it. He was like, that's actually a great idea. And I Yeah, it's in the background. I thought, I don't know what I'm gonna when the baseball season's over. He goes, You have a ton of San Diego hats, you just put them up. And I'm You're right. You break it out for baseball season. It's

greg carl (30:49)
Brilliant.

zane allyn (30:50)
a thing. Cause I was like, Do I gotta put football up there? Maybe I have I have a I have a Seahawks hat. I have a charge hat too. Anyway, that was a long segment on that, but yes. These are the things, right? These are the touchgrass things. Get clued into the earth.

greg carl (31:05)
It is. It's very important.

zane allyn (31:07)
This is a baseball game. There's no reason other baseball other than

greg carl (31:07)
And and this is something Claude will never be able to do.

zane allyn (31:10)
I wanna watch it. And now I'm gonna keep track of the standings with hats.

greg carl (31:15)
That this is something a human is required to do. Until you buy one of Elon's robots and he can move them for you by using Grok to check the scores. then Grok

zane allyn (31:21)
Yeah. Yeah. Let me get some

greg carl (31:24)
will probably tell you why the hell are you a Padres fan? Are you dumb? Like just demean you and then move the hats. but speaking of so you so you mentioned the Odyssey. Or is it soanna

zane allyn (31:28)
Yeah. And then it'll make its own its own baseball league up and tell me to watch it in public.

greg carl (31:36)
bananas? Like But you mentioned the Odyssey and I just mentioned Grok. So I saw that the the

The man himself, Mr. Musk said that Grok will make a feature length Odyssey because he was displeased

zane allyn (31:52)
Yeah.

greg carl (31:53)
with Christopher Nolan's rendition. that was not historically accurate. Some other people have said this too. There were some some characters were not true to form in a lot

zane allyn (32:00)
yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (32:02)
of cases. They they they were not the lovable dad. They were they wanted glory. They wanted to fight more, they wanted probably just gonna mean it's gonna be egregious, so it's gonna be like three hundred on crack, would be my guess.

zane allyn (32:13)
Yeah, they wanted

I say Sparta. yeah,

greg carl (32:16)
Right. They want everyone kicked down a hole.

zane allyn (32:18)
it's I mean, I thought a lot of that barking was like, I need more clicks, so I'm gonna say, you know, not hashtag, you know, not my Helen. but

greg carl (32:27)
Right.

zane allyn (32:30)
it I don't know, I don't know what it really did for anybody, but I was like, it's a weird take to have. You probably didn't even know what the Odyssey was ten minutes ago, but okay, now you have this take. Okay, got it. but

That is an interesting one. You pointed that out to me. He's gonna make his own Odyssey. we could probably guess what he thought was inaccurate. Maybe he actually stated it. I don't know if he did, but

greg carl (32:51)
I think it was so a lot of folks, and and I'm I'm saying this as someone that has not seen the movie yet, but has heard a of people say, and folks that are very true to the Iliad and and read it over years and years and years, or multiple times, is that some characters weren't were more like affable, meaning relatable, more of like an American style of how we trying to do cinema, as opposed to being

zane allyn (33:10)
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

greg carl (33:13)
true to form of, no, this person went for glory and they cared about this by any means necessary. No, they'll punch hugging face if they had to, right? That level of

zane allyn (33:17)
Yeah. Let's not try to make him a complicated character.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (33:21)
Exactly. But

there there is a as a funny aspect of this if you think about it. claiming that not having a historically accurate myth, been video generated is the perfect example of confident AI slop. Right? The myth wasn't accurate enough. Bro, hold my beer.

zane allyn (33:42)
So here's my AI rendition of it.

greg carl (33:46)
Let's go make it with an LLM. So

Maybe we're screwed, man. But you just can't make this up.

zane allyn (33:54)
What a classical waste of money too.

I mean just a waste that it would be like maybe not. Maybe it'd be the most entertaining thing. Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

greg carl (33:58)
Yeah. But token max think about the token maxing, bro. Think about the token maxing.

zane allyn (34:03)
I guess if you own the data center, hopefully he owns the data center. That's the first use for those

greg carl (34:08)
Let's Google Goo 'cause Google's problem.

zane allyn (34:09)
data centers in space, my friend, right there.

greg carl (34:14)
Is it worth it? Maybe. God, that would be great. And then it goes to 2001, a space odyssey, and it's like a whole th.

zane allyn (34:21)
spinning. I love that

movie by the way. Is that weird that I can watch that I can watch that movie. Not all the time, but I've watched it more than once. I dig it.

greg carl (34:29)
You have to have a personal

connection with them. It does not hold up at all, but it's not something that my kids appreciate. No, definitely my grandkids won't appreciate it. Exactly. Exactly.

zane allyn (34:33)
yeah, no. Yeah. First of all, Pan Am isn't even an airline anymore. But yeah, you're right. That's a deep cut.

greg carl (34:45)
No, but

zane allyn (34:44)
Let alone a space station.

greg carl (34:48)
but I I think this this

zane allyn (34:48)
I think that

that's actually an interesting debate. That's not for this pod, but I think it can hold up, but I see what you mean from a technology and like a look standpoint. Sure, sure. It's

greg carl (34:59)
I think culturally there

zane allyn (34:59)
You gotta watch it for the cinnamon. Yeah.

greg carl (35:02)
there's a very so we we talked, I don't know if we're recording her yet or not. We were talking about like how folks throughout history have perceived, you know, higher powers or perceived life or or just have this overall perceiving of things. Your book collection, which is very you gotta watch the YouTube short for one, kids.

zane allyn (35:13)
Yeah, yeah. We talk about my book collection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (35:22)
But one of the things about culture that you've seen, the cultures that have really thrived have had a good balance of not just

politics or or models or economy, but it also had a good balance of culture, of arts, enrichment. Like you

zane allyn (35:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (35:37)
look at the Greek philosophy, you or Greek, the Egyptians, the Romans, all the great empires or, you know, empires even going back to the Chinese dynasties. Like there is a lineage of art and enrichment and the human experience that represented that era. And I think you can

zane allyn (35:52)
Yeah.

greg carl (35:52)
say, Well, bro, why do I why do I need the Rosetta stone? I can just have Groc do it for me. Right. I think there's there's

There's some as well. Why do I need the pyramids, bro? Like Grot can just make it for me. Pyramids. Conspiracy peer people. Zane's here. but but this is but this

zane allyn (36:05)
Bringing back pyramids. Wanna see my hat? I'm just kidding.

greg carl (36:10)
is one of the things I do have a problem with is someone that has it loves the arts, it loves movies, it loves the artist aspect of the human condition,

zane allyn (36:16)
Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (36:18)
of you know, showing the human condition. I I do care about the artist aspect of the human aspect of the of the artist representation with air. Now, I'm not saying you couldn't create things.

But I think to say, yeah, I'll just have Grok go make this, instead of saying, you know what, Mr. Musk the trillionaire, I could go make this myself the right way with human beings, and maybe I'll have Grok do some things. I

zane allyn (36:36)
Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (36:38)
I think is where you you lose me, right? Just saying, I can just make it myself with this.

zane allyn (36:41)
Just

fund a movie. Hell, you could probably get Christopher Nolan to do it another way if you want. I don't know, maybe

greg carl (36:45)
It just and the the a as

a phrase I used to say all the time, hey man, the price is right, the flight's tonight. You know we are a coin operated society still, I believe.

zane allyn (36:55)
Well it might be interesting

to be like, all right, I'm gonna do it in a different take and this is why. And okay. Let's see. What was it? It was a project was two hundred and fifty million. He could swing that.

greg carl (37:05)
Yeah. Bezos burned like

three hundred and fifty million on the the Lord of the Rings prequel for for one season. Like, come on. What are we talking about here? But just letting you know your water sources are needed for AI, guys. Just letting you know.

zane allyn (37:17)
Yeah, what a missed opportunity. Go make a second

movie. You it'll do good if it's maybe not Grok made.

greg carl (37:22)
Yeah.

zane allyn (37:23)
Yeah. Yeah. Do let Groc let Groc

greg carl (37:25)
Great. Maybe some

zane allyn (37:26)
do the marketing. Let there's marketing budget here was 125. Let Grok do the marketing. Let it promo it. You know, give it that job. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point.

greg carl (37:33)
Yeah. Yeah, makes make some weird viral clips. Like, you know, chop it up and blast it everywhere. I I do wonder

one thing. Do we think Odysseus will use his child as bullet shields in that version? kind of like Mr. Musk has. Because you can't tell me he doesn't use his children as bullet shields. And you just can't. There's no explanation. There is just no explanation.

zane allyn (37:59)
Yeah.

greg carl (37:59)
W why he

why he holds his children a certain way. It's like actually here. All right, gear, okay. It like it just makes no sense at all. Otherwise you're just a psychopath, like Michael Jackson dang like a baby kind of level crazy. It's I'm not gonna tell anyone how to raise

zane allyn (38:12)
my

greg carl (38:13)
their kids. I'm also gonna tell you probably shouldn't use them as meat shields, but you know.

zane allyn (38:16)
Or hang on balconies, is that what you're referring to? I we were watching something about Michael the other day and that's funny. I told my son that.

greg carl (38:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's I got we're really aging ourselves here. That's like twenty years ago.

zane allyn (38:22)
Yeah, that's when he's held his kid over. I really think he was just like, Hey, look you know, he didn't know but

greg carl (38:26)
Hey look,

yeah, it was it was like a l hey, nobody said anything in the Lanking when they held up the little cub, right? So what? It was in Paris. Get off get off.

zane allyn (38:30)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like AI. It's like AI. He

did the result of showing his baby. Nobody said, Don't

greg carl (38:39)
Thanks.

zane allyn (38:39)
hang it over the balcony. That's a bad idea. You're right. It's just like AI, clear cut outcomes. Some people

greg carl (38:44)
Just saying. Just king of pop. What are you gonna You gonna tell him not to do it? No, you're not.

zane allyn (38:48)
He's so much thinking about that that he doesn't know about the everyday

greg carl (38:50)
Yeah.

zane allyn (38:51)
things.

greg carl (38:52)
Can you imagine working say, Michael, I don't think you should probably shouldn't do that. You know what he's gonna say? See this glove, bitch? Like he you ain't the king of pop. I'm the moon. I'm the moonwalker.

zane allyn (38:58)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

greg carl (39:02)
You kidding me? Did you write Smooth Criminal? I don't think so. I probably could have picked

zane allyn (39:04)
Yeah.

greg carl (39:06)
a better song there. But just saying.

zane allyn (39:11)
I was always a Bill the Jean fan, but was that off the wall? Yeah, off the wall. That's when I got introduced to him on record though. My mom had it so

greg carl (39:17)
PYT, man, pretty young thing. Best Michael

zane allyn (39:19)
D my deep.

greg carl (39:20)
Jackson song. It's just checks the box for me, man. It's great.

zane allyn (39:22)
good days. Those are the good days. Yeah, I

like that. I like the hot takes on music now. This is a new segment.

greg carl (39:26)
How

did we get here? I don't know. And how do we land this plane? I don't know. I don't know.

zane allyn (39:33)
I I had an interesting take on how you can tie the Odyssey, I think the AI Odyssey model to or AI to the Odyssey model. Maybe it's a little bit much to go into today, but you know, I think

greg carl (39:41)
Hit me. Hit me. No, no, there's there's

zane allyn (39:44)
we're right now at the end of the Battle of Troy. So the that's over. Burn the city walls

greg carl (39:49)
Right.

zane allyn (39:49)
down. And now we have to reconcile with what those decisions were made. Breaking Zeus's law, as

greg carl (39:54)
Mm.

zane allyn (39:55)
said in the movie. And now we gotta make our way home. And the journeys there. That's where we're at.

greg carl (39:58)
Dang. So what you're saying

is like, you know.

zane allyn (40:02)
And we d we did whatever,

right? To burn that city down. Like had to break in through the the Trojan horse. He had to trick everybody, which was to go against Zeus's word or law. you know, sacked the city. What were the means? What were the ends? Yeah. And I

greg carl (40:17)
So we have gone against the gods or as the AI as the

AI gone against the gods and meanwhile hugging face is just sitting there like Achilles with a arrow in his leg. You know, like, bro, what did I do? All I did was just help you take the city and I gotta take it and you're just all right, fine.

zane allyn (40:27)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Maybe you didn't have

to blind the cyclops, maybe the cyclops is just you know, amalgamation of what this AI is bringing and

greg carl (40:37)
Mm.

zane allyn (40:38)
he just wanted to make sheep cheese and you're in his cave, bro.

greg carl (40:41)
Sheep cheese.

Cyclops sheep cheese. Is that that's a that's I know you're a West Coast. I think that's a Whole Foods thing, right? It's Cyclops sheep cheese. Made fresh. Just

zane allyn (40:51)
It ain't man. That's a brilliant idea right there.

greg carl (40:56)
a giant eyeball on a on a round of cheese. That'd be amazing.

zane allyn (40:59)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Just and you s then you stab it and then you open it up. I love it. Woo Cheep Cheese. By the way, that's one of the historical historical

greg carl (41:08)
This is all copyrighted by the way. Don't steal our ideas. Do not consent. What what do you have to say?

zane allyn (41:13)
inaccuracies is I guess that island should have more of those giants on it and it's just the one and you know, why is he in the cave? So there's actually plenty of YouTube videos that crystal Nolan goes, Yeah, I took liberties here and this I would change the story, so it's all explained, but

greg carl (41:27)
Yeah. He also

zane allyn (41:28)
Yeah.

greg carl (41:29)
did this thing called Batman that's been told a hundred thousand different ways and it it was not to the T as well.

zane allyn (41:35)
gonna do the Odyssey multiverse,

right? Come on.

greg carl (41:38)
Good l man. man. That's amazing. No, no, no, no, no, no. Hit the thrusters we're picking back up. Wait a minute. Now we're in the Odyssey multiverse?

zane allyn (41:40)
Anyway, that's not landing the plane. I'm sorry. I took us back.

I'm here for that. I mean, there's an end to that for sure because

greg carl (41:51)
Cow, that would be fantastic.

zane allyn (41:53)
I'm kind of over some of the other multiverse. But Spider Man multiverse is still one the best movies, I think, but

greg carl (41:58)
I do you

do it differently where it's almost like instead of a multiverse, you do it like an Odyssey but Groundhog Day? Like no matter what happens, Achilles always dies and he's trying to change it. Like he sets the Trojan horse on fire. Like, how great would that be? Right? This is all happening in real time. This is why we do these these podcasts.

zane allyn (42:15)
I like the Groundhog

Day Two of Achilles Revenge.

greg carl (42:18)
Achilles yeah

Achilles revenge

zane allyn (42:23)
Achilles reckoning. I don't Well what can we workshop that. I like that. I like that take.

greg carl (42:25)
Like he can't like the two things he

couldn't change. He he couldn't he he he couldn't, you know, stop his cousin from dying and he he can't stop himself from getting shot in the leg, no matter what he tries. It would be lets Hector live. He tries to bro him up.

zane allyn (42:34)
matter what, there always will be a Achilles heel.

greg carl (42:38)
Right. Always comes back to it, man. Can't beat it.

zane allyn (42:40)
Maybe one world something else

happens to him and it's like, wow, okay, but it's always something. I like that

greg carl (42:45)
Yeah. Mm.

zane allyn (42:46)
move. Now that's worth I don't know, maybe we could throw a groc at that. Let's throw a grocket back. Yeah. I like that. That's an interesting it'll be

greg carl (42:48)
See, yeah, Grockn all right Musk. There you go, Musk. Now you got me. Put that in your MD file. All right. Dang.

zane allyn (42:56)
like the little like the Star Wars universe where you have these books and these little sp spin off things, you know, just let's just go here. A little multi or multiverse.

greg carl (43:02)
Yeah. The old Marvel

Marvel what if books, man, they were my favorite comics when I was a kid. Like, what if? What happens? Like,

zane allyn (43:05)
Ooh, what if was great? I even like the series.

greg carl (43:09)
yeah. Yeah. What if like Punisher

zane allyn (43:10)
If you watch the series, but I remember what a

greg carl (43:12)
kills the Marvel Universe? Like it was fantastic. It's great. Killed everybody. It's great. Well, I gotta tell you, Zayn, on

zane allyn (43:15)
Yeah. And then the watchers who watches the document.

greg carl (43:18)
that on that bumshell, we hit a lot, man.

zane allyn (43:22)
That's

greg carl (43:22)
We we hugging face, we solved the world's problems when it came to aid the kids go check out the AI safety index if you hit wanna, you know.

actually look at from a moral standpoint, not a productivity standpoint, not just look at what models can produce and who can do the most with less. Go see what these companies are actually doing. You know, touch into your inner hippie. Yeah.

zane allyn (43:39)
Yeah. Yeah, it talks about information sharing, right? Like who they share the information

with, what their governance is. It gives them a grade. It does actually tell you

greg carl (43:46)
Yep. Yeah.

zane allyn (43:47)
what their grades are based on. So

greg carl (43:49)
Yeah. That is. Very transparent. Very transparent. which I we're gonna appreciate. Which there's a lot of especially when folks aren't openly traded and and IPOs haven't been made. They don't have to be as transparent. which that you know, that might be a topic for next time.

zane allyn (44:01)
No. No,

they do not. Especially those

greg carl (44:05)
But

zane allyn (44:05)
with the pending IPOs. I saw actually that might be a topic lifestyle too.

greg carl (44:08)
Pending, pending.

Soon, as they say, of the meme soon.

zane allyn (44:12)
Isn't aren't there

moonshot IPOs even out there? And all of these things. Yeah.

greg carl (44:16)
It's it's approaching. It's approaching. Chemi three

is gonna save all the US companies from the rogue from the rogue models here in the LS.

zane allyn (44:25)
Actually a great topic. I

don't know that we like tease, little cliffhangers, but you know, you to go back to hugging face. The fact that they had an open or they had these frontier model programs probably helped them. They didn't probably it did help them 'cause

greg carl (44:38)
They had an emergence in case of emergency break glass.

zane allyn (44:40)
they were already ready to go. Yeah. They probably didn't intend for that to be the reason. And maybe that's the lesson.

greg carl (44:42)
Yeah, they've already done the war game. They've already done the war game. It was like, hey, in case this happens, dude, global

thermonuclear war, we're gonna bust out the tic tac toe. Boom.

zane allyn (44:53)
Want to play a game.

my God. War games. I will end on this the

greg carl (44:54)
Loop up. Loop up. Well, that's next time, man.

zane allyn (44:58)
other day. I don't know. I'm not convinced that they listen, that the things are listening. I think they have enough information on me to figure out things. But my YouTube

greg carl (45:06)
for sure.

zane allyn (45:06)
has been just serving me movies because I have YouTube TV too, but I watch things on

greg carl (45:11)
Mm-hmm.

zane allyn (45:11)
YouTube, obviously. And the other day it was right October and I actually sat through the whole thing because I like that movie. But

Terminator came on last night. I was like, all right, come on, that's a little real. Just the opening scene. I like look over. It's just playing and I think I was, I don't know, finishing something. I'm gonna say opening with the stupid robot. Yeah, yeah. Like, I

greg carl (45:27)
Just it's like the T eight hundred just walking across the battlefield. Yeah.

zane allyn (45:31)
was like, my, no, that's no, no, no. We're not doing that right now.

greg carl (45:34)
We saw your podcast

saying.

zane allyn (45:38)
Exactly. For some reason the robot turned and looked

greg carl (45:40)
Call me clippy.

zane allyn (45:41)
at me and said my name. Stuff's getting too real.

greg carl (45:44)
Too real. Too real.

zane allyn (45:45)
Give me. Anyway, I thought that was a little scary. A little much, YouTube, a little much. Like you like movies on AI? Anyway.

greg carl (45:49)
A little too close to home. A little too close to home. All right, we're gonna call it In the Bag

Episode five. Episode six gonna be a banger.

Till next time, my friend. We'll be seeing ya.

zane allyn (46:00)
All right. Yeah. And we might have

some topics already. We'll see. We'll see if we stick to That'd be great. All right.

greg carl (46:07)
Probably

not.

zane allyn (46:09)
Something else gonna happen. What are you gonna do? Anyway.

greg carl (46:12)
Of course. That was awesome. That was good.